Interlude: Post-Trump USA (guest blog by Aaron T. Patriot, featuring Hatboy and Dave Chapelle)

My esteemed associate and friend Aaron raised the following issues and I have been seeing a lot of the same sort of discussions on Twitter.

Not only about unity and reparations, though. The question of how in the fuck Trump got so many votes has been floating around like an undersea mine.

Now, as Aaron says:

While I might make excuses for some percentage of people who voted for Trump, the truth is that it’s a massive problem for all of us that 70 million people just voted for that.  They walk among us, and they’re not going anywhere.  Except the ones who said they’d leave if Biden won, and meant it, of course.

I was wondering if we might find it interesting to have a blog to post in, like the election one, where we share thoughts and analysis on what is going on in America that people couldn’t see through Trump after 4 years, and what we can do about it.

So, let’s do that.

This video is a tiny, tiny start:

I expect David, Sam Seder, TYT, and others to look at the data and the facts on the ground, and really take apart this issue, getting as much as we can out of it.

There’s a lot to unpack in there.

I was going to re-link a new version of Dave Chapelle’s Saturday Night Live opening monologue. Sadly I was unable to find a single version other than the SNL official one that wasn’t atrociously messed up in sound and image quality, and it might still have been locked out of various countries (Australia) anyway. It’s worth going and hunting for. Maybe not entirely relevant, but given that 100% of Trump’s voters were either racist or so worried about issue #2 that they didn’t care they were voting for a white supremacist fascist, it does make some historical and cultural points very well indeed.

What do you think?

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31 Responses to Interlude: Post-Trump USA (guest blog by Aaron T. Patriot, featuring Hatboy and Dave Chapelle)

  1. stchucky says:

    Ugh, Edpool typo’d “I’m not historian,” that’s so uncool.

    One thing I have heard is that Florida’s Latino community came out in huge numbers for Trump because they were terrified that Biden was going to turn the US into a socialist Hell-hole like Cuba.

    Now, for a start, imagine thinking Biden was going to do anything remotely socialist. You guys will be lucky to get universal healthcare.

    But secondly, hasn’t your propaganda-fuelled terror of socialism and communism gone too far? Like, 30 years ago already? Fucking grow up, babies.

  2. Wow, that was fast! Thanks!

    So I left a lot out of my email (which is the source of my text above), but I want this to be a discussion so I’m going to hold back for now. I’d especially like to see what the non-Americans (in terms of where they live) think we can and should do.

    Fuck I wasn’t going to poke but I am, I really mean this. I’d be interested if Ilya has any ideas what the hell we can do about this. I’d really like to think it’s possible, but I know it’s really dark right now.

    For now, just a couple of gripes from me against these 70 million whatevers. Racists. Idiots. Ignorami. Who the fuck knows.

    This weekend, after Biden was declared the victor and I literally couldn’t do ANYTHING to celebrate or share my relief other than emailing or texting a few friends and family, I got REALLY salty and resentful about how those Trump fuckers have ruined EVERYTHING for us in 2020. I worry the wrong person will “figure out” I “supported” (no, just voted for) Biden and use one of the guns-that-outnumber-American-people to kill me or someone in my family.

    I keep getting lost in my head thinking about the cycle of violence and retribution, usually featured in movies, that could result from such conflicts (not just toward my family but anyone). It’s really depressing. Where else that anyone would want to live, or in American history, have people not been able to broadcast their vote without fear, to enjoy winning the election uncowed?

    What the fuck is going on and how can we undo it?

    And the other thing that makes me SUPER salty is the whole COVID response. And lack thereof, from these same assholes. Probably even less of the 70 million who voted for Trump, but still a very large number. THEY are the reason that I and my family have missed out on so much of life for the past 8 months, and now will continue to for another 3 months at least.

    We’re trapped in our house, making nervous grocery runs and rubbing down everything with wipes, resisting all human contact impulses until hands are washed, on and on and on. It may sound silly, but there is a lot of life that is impacted by the need to be constantly vigilant, and doing it for 8 months has been devastating.

    And it’s their fault! Those fucking mask riots, I mean fucking hell what the fuck. Can we just again admit how fucked up that was, that large groups of Americans did those and suffered NO consequences?

    No all the consequences have always been on the responsible people like me. Well, except for COVID consequences, but even with our numbers that’s probably been rare for the particular people who should be getting it due to their irresponsibility. And I am fucking done with it.

    We’re trying right now to plan for a fun getaway around Thanksgiving, but my wife is having trouble because of the third wave. It just doesn’t seem like fun when you can’t eat out, or do anything. I just want to get away from this house, our trap for the past 8 months.

    So fuck Trump voters for that, too. Jesus.

    OK that was meant to be just a couple of points, and I guess it was, but I know it was long. LOL

    • stchucky says:

      Fuck’s sake, so many typos…

      Wow, that was fast! Thanks!

      No thank you, I was just sitting here gnashing my teeth because I’ve had to “work” all day and haven’t had a chance to get a new part of the Christmas story up. So this is good.

      I worry the wrong person will “figure out” I “supported” (no, just voted for) Biden and use one of the guns-that-outnumber-American-people to kill me or someone in my family.

      Do you really think that’s a feasible thing to worry about? I’m honestly asking, not pooh-poohing (heh, poo) your concern. I mean, it’s not like you’re an outspoken activist, outside of … what, this blog, and YouTube comments sections? By no means am I belittling that, but you’re one of seventy-four million Biden voters at this point – are you an easy or in any way tempting target?

      The fear is real though, I don’t want to belittle that either. Just hopefully lessen it a little, if I can.

      I keep getting lost in my head thinking about the cycle of violence and retribution, usually featured in movies, that could result from such conflicts (not just toward my family but anyone). It’s really depressing. Where else that anyone would want to live, or in American history, have people not been able to broadcast their vote without fear, to enjoy winning the election uncowed?

      I saw plenty of broadcasting. And there are way more places where people can’t vote, let alone advertise the fact that they voted the way they did, than there are places with freedom of expression (and practically freedom from consequence) that you see in the US and the UK for example.

      Now, since you said places “anyone would want to live”, specifically … that’s a knottier question. US history? African Americans and women getting the vote at all is a bit too recent-history to go saying 2020 is a dark time to admit you voted for a career neoconservative. Gotta say.

      And it’s their fault! Those fucking mask riots, I mean fucking hell what the fuck. Can we just again admit how fucked up that was, that large groups of Americans did those and suffered NO consequences?

      Can I just add, on a personal note, that I was saddened to find out what a shit person Kevin Sorbo is this past week or so? I know, so now you all have to know too. But yeah, he was all on board the “I bet we’ll never hear about corona again” train, and crying about the people celebrating in the streets.

      Fuck that guy (the dude I’m replying to in that tweet, by the way, isn’t Sorbo, he’s just some other rando who jumped into the conversation like me. But the original thread was Sorbo saying “duhh, look at how there’s no corona” in response to a celebration video where everyone was in a fucking mask).

      Would I go out and dance in the streets if we’d just overthrown a fascist True Crim over here? I think I would. I’d mask up, and I’d risk it. I masked up and risked it for fried chicken, I’d do it for overthrowing a fascist. Mind you, I last went into Helsinki when we were at double-figures cases. Now I think we’re back up into triple. We did go to a resort the other weekend but no ill effects. Still a bit irresponsible of us.

      (point of order, once and for all: is “triple figures” hundreds or thousands? I can never tell whether it refers to the number of zeroes or the full number. A six-figure paycheque is hundreds of thousands, right, not millions? We have hundreds right now, anyway)

      No all the consequences have always been on the responsible people like me. Well, except for COVID consequences, but even with our numbers that’s probably been rare for the particular people who should be getting it due to their irresponsibility. And I am fucking done with it.

      And fair enough.

      From what I saw, Biden wasn’t even waiting until January to start taking steps with covid. So hopefully that’s something.

      • stchucky says:

        Additionally, as I have posted about several times, I consistently underestimate how bugfuck crazy the USA is and how dangerously stupid and superstitious and ignorant your fellow USians are. So if you’re scared, that’s valid.

        You’re in a dark place and dwelling on it and imagining scenarios, though – that’s all pretty gnarly PTSD territory stuff (fully earned, sad to say) and it’s definitely not as bad as you’re imagining. But me telling you that isn’t going to help. The Hatstand is excellent therapy but it’s still not therapy. And I hope you know I mean that kindly, not in a mean way.

      • “Do you really think that’s a feasible thing to worry about? I’m honestly asking, not pooh-poohing (heh, poo) your concern. I mean, it’s not like you’re an outspoken activist outside … what, this blog, and YouTube comments sections? By no means am I belittling that, but you’re one one seventy-four million Biden voters at this point – are you an easy or in any way tempting target?

        The fear is real though, I don’t want to belittle that. Just hopefully lessen it a little, if I can.”

        I have no idea. How can you measure this sort of risk? I don’t have the information. I just know if Trump tells his cult to go ape shit in the streets, they will. And we know they like hunting liberals.

        “I saw plenty of broadcasting. And there are way more places where people can’t vote, let alone advertise the fact that they voted the way they did, than there are places with freedom of expression (and practically freedom from consequence) that you see in the US and the UK for example.”

        Well, ****I**** don’t feel like ****I**** can broadcast it, nor participate in any activism, because the cops and the militia work together to murder leftists.

        It’s not a 100% probability, just a chance and a risk too high.

        “Now, since you said places “anyone would want to live”, specifically … that’s a knottier question. US history? African Americans and women getting the vote at all is a bit too recent-history to go saying 2020 is a dark time to admit you voted for a career neoconservative. Gotta say.”

        So back that truck up. I’m saying it’s a dark time that we JUST BARELY said no to Fascism. Maybe. It’s still a long 10 weeks and a lot can happen.

        2 bullets can turn this around.

        “Can I just add, on a personal note, that I was saddened to find out what a shit person Kevin Sorbo is this past week or so? I know, now you all have to know too. But yeah, he was all on board the “I bet we’ll never heard about corona again” train, and crying about the people celebrating in the streets.”

        Yeah, I see this idiotic line a lot. Dave Rubin lost another friend over it, because the friend was like “dude, there were over 100,000 new cases the past 3 days, of course we’re going to keep talking about this REAL THING that is REALLY HAPPENING.” Jesus Christ.

        Corbo and Rubin are just meathead dipshits. Who have multi-million dollar houses.

        Although in Rubin’s case, I doubt the Blaze is going to keep him able to afford that for much longer. When he loses that house I am going to LOVE the…you know that German word I’m too lazy to google and paste here.

      • stchucky says:

        So back that truck up. I’m saying it’s a dark time that we JUST BARELY said no to Fascism. Maybe. It’s still a long 10 weeks and a lot can happen.

        Fair to say. Which brings us back to what exactly the US, and the world, can do about this. I honestly don’t have much of an idea and am not optimistic. Although I appreciate the US just barely scraping through with this definite step back from the brink. Make no mistake.

        When he loses that house I am going to LOVE the…you know that German word I’m too lazy to google and paste here.

        Ah, unangebracht freude.

        (no, I know it’s not … but on the Hatstand it is! https://hatboy.blog/2005/08/05/inappropriate-joy/)

  3. Damon says:

    I will jump in eventually (probably tomorrow), but I had a long day at work, drank a couple whiskeys (not at work) and am too tired to put coherent thoughts together. Typing is a chore since I am having to hunt and peck based on the above statement. Plus I want to think about it more.The framework/basic posits are sound and Aaron has valid concerns that may apply more to him and where he lives than to me, but on the other hand, with the rise in crime in my city post-Uprising violence is a real concern. There is a reckoning coming in the Democratic Party, the US, the world. It has shades of World War III, not in that it will be a nuclear one, but one fought for the World.

    • Toon says:

      I’m just listening.

    • aaronthepatriot says:

      Dafuq is going on D-dawg? Can’t be drinking yourself into oblivion every night, believe me I know. Get some commentary up in dis hizzouse yo?

      • stchucky says:

        This is not how everybody operates, my man. You know that! I’m sure he’ll get in here when he gets in here.

      • Toon says:

        Was that aimed at me?
        I’m an observer from very far away with the benefit of access to some intelligent commentary (both personally and in the Australian media) on the US election by people who know what they are talking about when it comes to the US and politics but have the added advantage of some distance as they now live in Australia. I have spent a lot of time listening to and reading them lately. I could repeat what they have said, if you like, if you are genuinely interested in some different views, but they don’t pretend to have the solutions. There are things socially and politically in the US that seem very very strange compared to the way we go about things in Australia and that we take for granted, but there is definitely a need to look at the US and question whether we are at risk of following that path, and I think those questions are rightly being asked here. I listened to the keynote speaker of a Festival of Ideas here last weekend and he talked about the beautiful souls of this world who can see difference without seeing opposition. That’s probably a pretty good start.

      • stchucky says:

        Pretty sure D-dawg is Damon.

        But these are all good thoughts. When you mentioned differences, I was reminded of an amusing hypocrisy I just saw being spouted on one or another of the US channels (I think it was Tucker Carlson on Fox). They said that Biden wants a conformist US where everyone is the same and no differing views are tolerated. And something about Starbucks. I don’t know.

        But hold on, these were the same guys who were declaring “diversity is weakness” a few months ago! The only consistency here is consistency of a racist vision. No, progressives (not that Biden is one of them) will not tolerate bigotry. They want everyone to be equal, not the same. If you have backwards views, progressives will try to update them, in order to avoid the pain and heartache that comes from people with backwards views hating and oppressing minorities. That’s how civilisation works.

        I have nothing to help with either. I write books, that’s my thing.

      • Great points again, bro!

        And yeah, Toon, I guess you’re not familiar with the nickname generation technique where you take the first letter of the name (or handle I guess, online) and add -dawg, to be really cool. Like super cool. Like me.

        So you would have been T-dawg. Or T-bone. Or T-rex.

      • Toon says:

        Realised by Hatboy’s reference to “he” that you probably meant Damon. Lol. Still glad I put up my post though.

    • Good analysis aside from a couple of things, the biggest one being a total lack of solutions, which is what I’m hoping we discuss in this thread. But it’s totally understandable. The entire Democratic establishment is lined up behind this “progressives almost gave us the L” bullshit, including scum like Clyburn of SC, who gave Joe his momentum back before Super Tuesday. And including scum like Republicans, of course, because why wouldn’t they want the D party as far right as possible! So what can we do about it?

      Either Biden listens to this bullshit that has NO DATA to back it up, or he doesn’t. All progressives, ACTUAL progressives, won their reelections, and several won additional seats. Only Centrist Dems lost, just like always. Sometimes after the establishment helped them beat a better-polling progressive. Like in KY against McConnell but there are MANY examples.

      Anyway I don’t know how we help him listen to facts if he doesn’t want to. I think it’s mostly up to Bernie. If Biden can’t tell AOC is where it’s at, well, he’ll find out in 2024. They all will.

      The other thing Kyle messes up is ignoring Alaska. I know it’s wishful thinking, and why the FUCK did they not make any progress counting votes from Friday through the end of yesterday???? but there were a LOT of mail in votes. That is a path to getting the Senate. Let’s see.

      Thanks for reminding me of Kyle, time to resubscribe and I did. I’m sure I won’t hear any more of his ridiculous Russiagate denial of reality, surely we’re past that now. I just couldn’t bear it. There was SO MUCH EVIDENCE, and as far as I know he didn’t even come around after the Mueller Report made it so clear. I mean, if you read the pages instead of just the cliff’s notes. He saw all the smoke, was coughing on it like the rest of us, but kept denying there was any fire.

      Russia helped Trump in every way they could, and he gave them massive favors throughout. Rhetorically, in terms of cancelled sanctions, and on and on. Whether you agree with the moves or not, there was the quid and the quo. The only question was whether there was anything to the “pro”. I think there was, but not explicitly. But what about those private meetings where translators were excluded? Why was Trump so scared for us to hear what was discussed with Putin that he took unprecedented steps like only using Putin’s translator?

      I mean that’s just idiotic in general, right? The translator could LIE, you know?

      So I couldn’t stand Kyle’s constant denial of Russian interference and coll..aboration? If it wasn’t collusion, it was at least collaboration, if I understand the English language.

      But enough of that, Kyle makes great points here. They wasted no time lying that we lost them house and senate races and almost the presidency. What do we DO about it?

    • So this one is pretty good and on-topic, although perhaps tl;dr. It highlights a couple of their documentaries, including one on Angry White Men in America, and the next one specifically on how to move past the Trump era. Hey! That’s the–that’s in the thing! You know, the thing!

      I owe both ScreenRant AND Biden for that.

      Basically, the solution is mostly going to be: death, and economic prosperity. If we can’t get these people to work, if we can’t improve their material conditions, they will continue to base all their worth in this BS macho masculinity shit. So, I think we were aware of those solutions, but hopefully there are more in case the Democrats don’t deliver quickly.

      One thing I think they ignore, and it does seem a little prejudiced to me, is that I’m sure other minority cultures have a lot of the same toxic masculinity that white culture has. In particular, I’d bet good money that the black culture in America has oodles of toxic masculinity. The common factor is not skin color, but AMERICA. And MEN.

      • stchucky says:

        Really interesting point about the culture of toxic masculinity and its ties to good old fashioned patriarchy and misogyny. I don’t have a solution to that – not one I think you’ll like, anyway. My answer is basically “things are slowly improving, let them continue to slowly improve.” We won’t see the sort of masculinity you’re hoping for in the mainstream in our lifetimes, although we can already see it if we look in the right places. The internet and general media are not those places.

        What else will help? Education. Your education system needs to be torn down and rebuilt. Forget about scary socialist / pacifist “re-education” – just a one-pass education is needed.

        How to do that? Fuck if I know. Write letters to your local authorities. Get in their faces. Remind them over and over again that the progressives won this election and they represent the will of the people. The politicians fall for the same trap the rest of us do – they see the bigoted, toxic, fundamentalist loudmouths in the media and think they’re representative of some sort of base (and again, I’m not adjusting for the US being cray), and so they act like it. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy spiral. You need to keep reminding them that the real people are the ones they’re tempted to discount right now. Westboro Baptist Church was only about 40 people. I tell folks this, even over in Finland, and they’re surprised. “But they were everywhere, all over the news in 2010…”

        Yeah, no shit.

        Keep on shouting at your representatives. Keep on supporting the progressives who might otherwise lose hope. Make like Andy Dufresne in The Shawshank Redemption, and write two letters a week.

  4. ohilya says:

    Good riddance to possibly our worst president since…geez…John Tyler, probably.

      • ohilya says:

        I wonder if that’s what Tyler’s contemporaries thought.

      • stchucky says:

        Imma say … half of them?

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tyler, for those who are ignorant as I am of US Presidents 3 through 35 or so.

      • stchucky says:

        Because we don’t give any number of fucks, or fractions thereof.

      • Unless he does go through with the coup he seems to be setting up. If we can make it through this, I think Republicans are no longer in a position that they can ever win the presidency again. I think we should inform as many non-Trump voters as we can that, as I’ve been commenting everywhere it is relevant: “Trump is either America’s last Republican president, or America’s last president. We may have to act to decide which is the case.” And other variants of that.

      • stchucky says:

        It’s depressing as fuck to see some of my formerly beloved comics and creators, who I’d long since decided were veering off the path onto the wrong side of history, so completely fall into the cult and say the quiet part loud these past few days. And I resent the fuck out of the idea that I need to be the one who tries to find a way for them to become functional. I’ve said it many times on this blog, but there is no tolerant left in your old pal Hatboy. I may be as pretty as an angel but I sure as Hell ain’t one, as Yondu notably said.

        So where do we go when it comes time to address these grievances? I see people urging “reach out to them, sympathise” and others “why even engage”. I happen to believe that an evil or an ignorance that goes unremarked places a stain on the person who turns a blind eye. I will not abide that. As long as I have the strength I will continue confront those people. But is there a point?

        I see a lot of people saying that this is 2016 on the other foot. But as much as I think there may have been issues with the count in 2016 (and don’t even get me started on 2000), Trump got to be president because that was the law, like it or not. Hillary won the popular vote so there’s grounds to dump the electoral college, I don’t know.

        The fact remains, she conceded and Trump was inaugurated. He was also impeached, and I’ll get to that, but he was president. The lefties may have wailed and gnashed their teeth about it, but he got to do a lot of bad fucking things and empowered and enabled a lot of evil and stupid bigots over the past four years. Hillary didn’t get to be president and sign executive orders and stuff.

        This year, Trump lost the popular vote and the electoral college. Even if every case turns his way, and so far there’s no evidence for any of them, he still loses.

        Right, but they turn around and compare his dumb pointless court cases with the Russian collusion and impeachment cases. They were a huge waste of time and ended in exoneration, so why allow one and complain about the other?

        They ended in impeachment! There was proven collusion and out-and-out treason! They just couldn’t kick him out because that was how the republicans voted. There wasn’t enough to force the issue, or charge a sitting president. You’d better believe there was evidence. To compare it to Benghazi, let alone whatever Omabagate was meant to be, let alone these election fraud invesitgations … there’s no comparison. The Mueller investigation and Benghazi were actual cases, the former ended in impeachment and dismissal amidst massively partisan decision making, the latter in full disclosure exoneration amidst a dicks-out-for-Harambe republican witch hunt. The third wasn’t even a thing, and this last? It’s just a fucking joke.

        But he’s still president, because he won in 2016, so he can do a lot of dangerous shit right now. And enabling his base, very much his go-to move, is a huge part of it.

      • You know I agree with all of this. I, too, have no tolerance for this bullshit. Especially as it drives us into racism, bigotry, and fascism. And for sure, the situation with Trump is totally different than Hillary last time. In as many ways as possible.

        But, we just watched “The Social Dilemma” and, in addition to it being a pretty good documentary that you would probably enjoy and learn from (a bit, at least, as we did), it raises an important point. We talk about “echo chambers” and many of us here have the wit and wisdom to look outside our preferred channels to see if there’s another take on important events, and a strong bullshit detector when seeing something new or from a favorite youtuber (etc.) that veers us away instead of reeling us in.

        But the documentary makes the case that many, many people are not so capable, and that the AI and algorithms are so refined now that they can easily reel in millions, tens or hundreds of millions, into these silos. And then everything they see confirms what they’ve seen before, draws them in deeper, etc. It provides a clear explanation how believers in all other conspiracies:–vaccines, flat earth, etc.–get reeled into the QAnon Pizzagate shit as well. And it works. And the next thing you know, they’re seeing total confirmation over and over of all these insane things.

        And I maintain, they are NOT watching Trump in his embarrassing entirety. They’re not paying attention like we are, they don’t see the pettiness, the stupidity, the fumbling around. All they see are carefully curated and filtered clips of Trump that make him seem strong. And of course that make the case he’s against these evil pedophiles etc.

        And so they MUST vote for him. What choice do they have?

        Well, I mean they could refuse to believe 50% of America are pedophiles and pedophile enablers, there is THAT. But I can see it. It makes “sense” to me. And they can’t seem to escape from these silos.

        Now, can we break them out? I’d say probably not, so this isn’t really constructive in terms of solutions. But it does serve to make the case that some, a good percentage, of that 70 million are actually NOT horrible people. But which ones? No idea. Got to go for now, moron this later.

      • stchucky says:

        Yeah, I saw that documentary on Netflix a while ago (in fact I linked to it in my post about leaving Facebook). Really interesting stuff, although it made me feel bad for the kid from The Santa Clarita Diet. It certainly made leaving Facebook that much easier.

        Like we discussed, I came away from it thinking that this was more a problem for ignorant or weak-minded people who weren’t university educated in critical thinking, but it did annoy me that I wasn’t completely immune to the effects, and so the only take-away was mortification and ignominy as a wholly brainwashed sheep. I reject that premise. If anything, it was my engagement outside my bubble / echo chamber that was so exhausting me. My attempts to cling to a thread of reality amidst so much fantasy and hate. I remain heartily glad to be out of it.

        But you’re right. The people who fall victim to this effect the most are elderly and uneducated. One thing I think the documentary fucked up was making it look like just another violent video game or heavy metal. There are young people and kids falling victim to it, but they’ve been born into it and they navigate it better than we give them credit for. It’s the fucking Boomers and early-cohort Gen Xers who are face-firsting into infofascism the worst. Because they’re not equipped to deal with it.

        We need to work harder to make it safe, starting with making social media a more basic educational premise, on a level with maths. But absolutely this is where the deluded Trump cultists get their stance and strength from.

      • Well Hatboy, if you haven’t seen The Social Dilemma, you really should!

        *smri*

        LOL sorry, couldn’t resist. I apologize for missing/forgetting. So much going on I’m kind of stream of consciousness on a lot of this election shit at this point.

        Agreed on what you wrote there, too. I still think anyone, not just old fuckers, can get tricked into those silos, and you can see it in who goes to those QAnon protests. I know, you merely indicated boomers are the worst, and they are literally the worst, but I wanted to press the point that age is just a number.

        Yeech. Sorry. You know what I mean.

        One thing I thought the documentary completely missed was the rightward tilt of these social media platforms. I am not here to debate design vs. happenstance, but you and I and others know it’s a fact. The reason is, the right-wing tends to be far more amenable to big business and the rich. Progressives, as always, are the enemy to be eradicated. So there aren’t a lot of progressive silos going on in the recommendations and feeds and whatever these platforms have that I don’t use.

        I was disappointed they didn’t drive that home. Instead they both sidesed it, and even only used Republican politicians speaking out against the silos. Rubio, that senator with the concerned face who still voted for Kavanaugh, and the Alaska senator I still hope is going to lose once all the ballots are counted.

        Now, I think there is an argument that Republicans are the natural enemy of this expanding technology, sure. But they oppose it in total partisan fashion as usual. And they surely could have found Democrats speaking out against it if they wanted to. So I resented those aspects of the doc.

      • stchucky says:

        Well Hatboy, if you haven’t seen The Social Dilemma, you really should!

        Holy shit, why didn’t you say!

        Actually fun fact, it was my esteemed brother-in-law Vuta who turned me towards that documentary a few weeks back. Well worth a watch, although I’m sure nobody on the Hatstand would really consider it to be telling them anything they didn’t already know. Still well crystallised, I’d say.

        LOL sorry, couldn’t resist. I apologize for missing/forgetting. So much going on I’m kind of stream of consciousness on a lot of this election shit at this point.

        Nah that’s entirely fair enough. And it’s not like I advertised it or mentioned it by name, it was just snuck into a link there.

        Agreed on what you wrote there, too. I still think anyone, not just old fuckers, can get tricked into those silos, and you can see it in who goes to those QAnon protests. I know, you merely indicated boomers are the worst, and they are literally the worst, but I wanted to press the point that age is just a number.

        Yeech. Sorry. You know what I mean.

        Heh. Well if younger people are being taken in, it’s a function of education and prejudice for them just as much as it is for the aging and elderly. That factor just becomes more acute the older you are.

        One thing I thought the documentary completely missed was the rightward tilt of these social media platforms. I am not here to debate design vs. happenstance, but you and I and others know it’s a fact. The reason is, the right-wing tends to be far more amenable to big business and the rich. Progressives, as always, are the enemy to be eradicated. So there aren’t a lot of progressive silos going on in the recommendations and feeds and whatever these platforms have that I don’t use.

        I was disappointed they didn’t drive that home. Instead they both sidesed it, and even only used Republican politicians speaking out against the silos. Rubio, that senator with the concerned face who still voted for Kavanaugh, and the Alaska senator I still hope is going to lose once all the ballots are counted.

        Now, I think there is an argument that Republicans are the natural enemy of this expanding technology, sure. But they oppose it in total partisan fashion as usual. And they surely could have found Democrats speaking out against it if they wanted to. So I resented those aspects of the doc.

        Yeah, the “protest for centrism” or whatever it was … that was pretty on the nose and just a lazy way of both-sidesing the extremism that a social media bubble can pull you into. Intended for maximum approachability to both / all extremes, not alienating anyone (because extreme centrists don’t identify that way anyway), and not really the point of the documentary, just a little narrative frame to hang the interviews and statistics off. So I give it a pass.

        Of course I think the right-wing extremism is more dangerous and prevalent, because I’m on the left and all I see in my bubble is hippies trying to be nice to everyone, and occasionally taking part in demonstrations and – yes – rioting. I know I have a bias, but I have to look at the numbers (I know, I feel dirty and I blame you):

        Governments worldwide classify right-wing extremist groups as terrorists. Those groups commit actual murders. They’re running people down in their cars and shooting them dead in the streets. Authoritarian police are gassing and killing all over the place. These things are happening.

        Antifa and #BLM are aggressive, yes. And they are responsible for property damage, yes. But as a wise pundit said, if you think killing is an acceptable response to property damage but property damage is not an acceptable response to killing, you might just be a fascist bootlicker.

      • stchucky says:

        Because, I was going to add, why would you go to the effort of making a message like that, which is clearly really important and will probably become a key sociocultural watershed in the next 5 – 10 years, and then “bias” it critically against the people who are most dangerous / most susceptible / most prevalent? You’d just reaffirm their belief that they’re being oppressed and picked on by so-called experts, and reduce even the few who might take the info on-board and start to get better. That would be pointless, wouldn’t it?

      • Well said on all counts, I don’t have anything more to add on this. Especially considering the fundamental question you just asked about the state of affairs here with the election and the path forward and WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON EVEN.

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