I’m not often driven to introspection or reflection, but the question does come up sometimes. The big question. So big, there’s just no containing it within the puny boundaries of a single set of punctuationary bookends.
Who are these mysterious and unsung heroes of obscurity and shadow? What is their origin story? Do they have a prequel trilogy? What are their secret identities? What are their public identities, for that matter? What are their powers? Their abilities? Their haunted pasts and troubled futures? Their modus operandi? Where do they live anyway, and when? What do they do for a living? Do they really have these fantastical adventures, or is it a dazzlingly intellectual and overwrought metaphor? Or is it perhaps a smug and post-modern sort of metaphor? Is it a plain stupid metaphor, hedged around with thick wads of plausible deniability, a soap bubble of illusory plot dependent upon readers who don’t dare question it for fear of looking foolish? A flight of fancy, having dozed off in front of the television during an episode of something suitably spaceship-oriented? Do they have a quest, a handler, a mission statement, a department-level development objective in five stages?
I am Hatboy.
https://hatboy.blog/2013/12/17/metalude-who-are-creepy-and-hatboy/
The very idea of watching this show makes me nauseated. But j ahve felt that way since I watched the first trailer for Borat all those years ago. His “humor” simply doesnt tick meh boxes.
Fair to say, I’ve found him difficult to watch too. Borat was painful, but occasionally funny. It seems like with this show, he’s refined the process. For better or worse.
brkn, I gotta say I’m with you in spirit. I’ve always found his humor to be very gross, and most laughs it gave me were ones I felt icky about later.
But the point is, you can seemingly get right-wing leaders in America to do just about anything if you wave the gun rights flag or the terrorist flag in their face. Especially if they think you are in “Mossad-not-in-Mossad” XD
But I can get a politician to do most of those things by waving a MAGA hat at them. And any half is #hashtag movement rose the left out in droves. In short, all of them make me annoyed to share air with the human species. As j stated last week, I would be quite happy if the population of Finland stood at about 12 people.
Except that you’re talking about “the left” as in the people, the voters. The ridiculous exposure of the right by Cohen has been their leadership. Politicians and organizational heads. Not random MAGA idiots.
As far as I’ve seen, no one has been able to do this to the left. There are certainly clowns there as well, but in general we don’t select them to LEAD. Sorry to be so partisan but the truth is what it is.
I’m gonna go ahead and agree to disagree with you there chief. In the 33 years I have been on this earth, j have yet to see a politician of either stripe who wasnt a turncoat hypocrite at the drop of a hat. Of course, I grew up in Illinois. Every governor I have ever known, went to jail. And my family is virulently anti-political. So my glasses are colored.
OK first let me address the MASSIVE strawman you just erected. And it’s hard, because like you seem to, I view hypocrisy to be a HORRIBLE human trait. But that is not what we’re showing here, so you don’t disagree with me, not yet. Sorry to disagree that you even disagree, LOL.
What we are talking about is people willing to do stupid shit out of fear or ignorance. That is what Cohen has highlighted, and what I challenge you to show from left leadership. See?
Bernie Sanders is not a hypocrite. He’s held the same positions for about 40 years, too, by the way. And he wouldn’t be a hypocrite “at the drop of a hat” goddamnit. Sorry again man but that’s bullshit.
33 years? I’ve been on this Earth 42 years, and I’ve seen a few who weren’t hypocrites, or did their DAMN BEST not to be, which if you think about it is actually the best anyone can do. Everyone on this planet has bumped up against hypocrisy a time or two, myself included and I just bet you as well. The real question is, what do you DO when you find you have held a hypocritical position?
Sorry man, I guarantee I follow US politics far deeper than you do. There are politicians who are not hypocrites, but there are just a few.
Ahh, I see where we diverged. You see MAGA as an argument of fearmongering (which it absolutely is), and the values of the left as grounded and rational (to be questioned, but not by me as I give zero fucks. In my opinion, politicians in general, merely surf from one idea to the next. Whichever is most politically acceptable to their particular voting base at the time. They HAVE to “go with the flow” or they get voted out. That’s just reality. And while there are politicians, like the esteemed Mr. Sanders, who yes, have a view, and have stuck by it. What has that actually GOTTEN them. He failed to gain his parties nomination. In general, politics, and politicians are fucked. The system is the best we have. Yes, but that doesn’t mean it’s the best option. Since it’s the ONLY current option, you feel free to follow it as closely as you want. I’m just gonna ignore it and wait for another option to present itself.
Also, a strawman argument is, by definition, designed to distract from a previously weak argument by pointing at something else non relevant or only marginally relevant. I am most certainly not doing that. I fully believe that jumping on the band wagon (MAGA for the right, and whatever is currently trendy with the left) is a perfect example of why politicians shouldnt be trusted. It displays their hypocrisy. And while Cohen is ostensibly “showing” us this. It’s been pretty obvious for as long as I’ve been able to understand the political system. So 3rd grade? And In my opinion, uninformed and infantile as it may be, watching a show like that, supporting him and the idea that “right wing politicians are stupid and gullible” is only gonna bite everybody in the ass. Either when politicians on the left fall prey to the same thing. Or when the left gets voted into a majority and enacts their own versions of whatever short sighted BS the right is trying to pull this week. No strawman argument here sir.
I think the point Aaron was making about the left’s vs. the right’s politicians in this case is, Cohen has gone after them both. And the conservative politicians have willingly taken part in commercials advertising soft toys with guns hidden in them, and gotten down on their knees and sucked a prosthetic phallus while gagging “I can fit two more of these in here.”
Progressive politicians like Sanders, however, just listened once to Cohen’s ludicrous bullshit, gave him a stupendous dose of stink-eye, and went “right, you’re an idiot, this conversation is over.”
I think there is probably an agenda-driven imbalance to the idiocy being shown vs. the good sense being shown, and to be fair there was also a “LOL no I’m not going to say that, I’m not an idiot” from one republican … but it’s telling.
Fair enough, as I refuse to watch any of the show, I only get information based on a “look what this moron did” basis. Which I avoid if at all possible. Cause I dont WANT to know what morons do, that’s why I quit Facebook.
Don’t kid a kidder, BRKN. You share a veritable circus freakshow of videos of morons doing things – just according to your own standards of entertainment.
And that is entirely acceptable and above reproach.
This is true. Also, knowing Sanders was featured in the show, makes his mentioning by mr.thepatriot far less straw like. I was puzzled at how he was relevant, but decided my inclusion of the ENTIRE left, did include him, and thus while only a small representative, did make his use a suitable retort. But it makes WAAY more sense now.
I’ll reply to the rest of this on lunch break but I feel the need to write this now before any video sharing occurs. I thought Cohen’s attempt on Bernie was weak and obvious. I was not using Bernie because he was on that show. He’s simply the only politician I can throw up against “all polician” insults without taking the time to think.
“Also, a strawman argument is, by definition, designed to distract from a previously weak argument by pointing at something else non relevant or only marginally relevant. I am most certainly not doing that.”
You don’t think you are doing that. And to be fair to you, you haven’t watched the videos, so you don’t even know what they are actually showing, so you really can’t be intentionally providing a distraction now can you?
But in fact, your shift to a topic of hypocrisy, instead of to the actual video evidence of willingness to give stuffed-animals-with-guns-in-them to 5 year olds, charging a terrorist with your ass hanging out to make him afraid of turning gay, and sucking his dick to prevent being beheaded, is a distraction. Because those have NOTHING to do with hypocrisy. If anything, they are exactly in line with how far-gone the right-wing in the US is. They are fully consistent with the single-mindedness the right-wing has on those issues.
So, not at all hypocritical. But you didn’t know that because you haven’t watched the videos, I got it.
“I fully believe that jumping on the band wagon (MAGA for the right, and whatever is currently trendy with the left) is a perfect example of why politicians shouldnt be trusted. It displays their hypocrisy. And while Cohen is ostensibly “showing” us this.”
That is not what he is showing. At least, not in the majority of the videos I’ve seen. He’s revealing long-standing Republican issues and they’re NOT being hypocrites on it. One could actually say the very few who refused are actually the hypocrites here.
“It’s been pretty obvious for as long as I’ve been able to understand the political system. So 3rd grade?”
Yes, I agree the hypocrisy is rampant. It’s also a human condition. Give a human power and watch it grow.
“And In my opinion, uninformed and infantile as it may be, watching a show like that, supporting him and the idea that “right wing politicians are stupid and gullible” is only gonna bite everybody in the ass.”
Possibly.
“Either when politicians on the left fall prey to the same thing. Or when the left gets voted into a majority and enacts their own versions of whatever short sighted BS the right is trying to pull this week.”
You’re LIVING UNDER the kind of “BS” we’re trying to “pull” here, goddamnit, in Finland. I suppose you’re having a horrible time of it? I mean, pay attention to the policies on offer or don’t, but stop splitting the middle and talking crap. Please.
“No strawman argument here sir.”
Well my mention of Bernie Sanders, which elsewhere you show you consider to be somewhat strawman-like, was in fact a counter-example to your assertion. Therefore, not a distraction, directly related to the topic, the farthest thing to a strawman.
“Ahh, I see where we diverged. You see MAGA as an argument of fearmongering (which it absolutely is), and the values of the left as grounded and rational (to be questioned, but not by me as I give zero fucks.”
What are the values of the left? My guiding principle is “will this make the world a better place or a worse one?” “Will this do more good than harm?”
I think that defines most of us on the left. So go ahead, and question that. If you can.
“In my opinion, politicians in general, merely surf from one idea to the next. Whichever is most politically acceptable to their particular voting base at the time. They HAVE to “go with the flow” or they get voted out. That’s just reality.”
You don’t understand what keeps politicians in office then, or at least you don’t know what the flow is. The flow is “what do I have to do to get massive corporate donor money, and massive independently wealthy persons money?” It has little to nothing to do with the policies the people want. Apologies if that’s what you meant but it didn’t read like that.
My policies (the ones I favor I mean) all have overwhelming majority support. But they are scorned.
Honestly if you don’t like politics and you ignore it, then please don’t try to tell me how you think it works.
“And while there are politicians, like the esteemed Mr. Sanders, who yes, have a view, and have stuck by it. What has that actually GOTTEN them.”
Way too open and complicated a question but to pretend they’ve gotten nothing reveals ignorance.
“He failed to gain his parties nomination. In general, politics, and politicians are fucked. The system is the best we have. Yes, but that doesn’t mean it’s the best option. Since it’s the ONLY current option, you feel free to follow it as closely as you want. I’m just gonna ignore it and wait for another option to present itself.”
Hatboy's Hatstand 
I watched the first episode in full yesterday, and it was fucking hilarious. Will watch the entire show.
He actually said he had room in his mouth to fit one more didn’t he??? XD XD XD
And dreameling, yup, meet the right-wing in the US.
Bwaaaahahaha he did, he did say that, that happened.
The very idea of watching this show makes me nauseated. But j ahve felt that way since I watched the first trailer for Borat all those years ago. His “humor” simply doesnt tick meh boxes.
Fair to say, I’ve found him difficult to watch too. Borat was painful, but occasionally funny. It seems like with this show, he’s refined the process. For better or worse.
brkn, I gotta say I’m with you in spirit. I’ve always found his humor to be very gross, and most laughs it gave me were ones I felt icky about later.
But the point is, you can seemingly get right-wing leaders in America to do just about anything if you wave the gun rights flag or the terrorist flag in their face. Especially if they think you are in “Mossad-not-in-Mossad” XD
But I can get a politician to do most of those things by waving a MAGA hat at them. And any half is #hashtag movement rose the left out in droves. In short, all of them make me annoyed to share air with the human species. As j stated last week, I would be quite happy if the population of Finland stood at about 12 people.
Except that you’re talking about “the left” as in the people, the voters. The ridiculous exposure of the right by Cohen has been their leadership. Politicians and organizational heads. Not random MAGA idiots.
As far as I’ve seen, no one has been able to do this to the left. There are certainly clowns there as well, but in general we don’t select them to LEAD. Sorry to be so partisan but the truth is what it is.
I’m gonna go ahead and agree to disagree with you there chief. In the 33 years I have been on this earth, j have yet to see a politician of either stripe who wasnt a turncoat hypocrite at the drop of a hat. Of course, I grew up in Illinois. Every governor I have ever known, went to jail. And my family is virulently anti-political. So my glasses are colored.
OK first let me address the MASSIVE strawman you just erected. And it’s hard, because like you seem to, I view hypocrisy to be a HORRIBLE human trait. But that is not what we’re showing here, so you don’t disagree with me, not yet. Sorry to disagree that you even disagree, LOL.
What we are talking about is people willing to do stupid shit out of fear or ignorance. That is what Cohen has highlighted, and what I challenge you to show from left leadership. See?
Bernie Sanders is not a hypocrite. He’s held the same positions for about 40 years, too, by the way. And he wouldn’t be a hypocrite “at the drop of a hat” goddamnit. Sorry again man but that’s bullshit.
33 years? I’ve been on this Earth 42 years, and I’ve seen a few who weren’t hypocrites, or did their DAMN BEST not to be, which if you think about it is actually the best anyone can do. Everyone on this planet has bumped up against hypocrisy a time or two, myself included and I just bet you as well. The real question is, what do you DO when you find you have held a hypocritical position?
Sorry man, I guarantee I follow US politics far deeper than you do. There are politicians who are not hypocrites, but there are just a few.
Ahh, I see where we diverged. You see MAGA as an argument of fearmongering (which it absolutely is), and the values of the left as grounded and rational (to be questioned, but not by me as I give zero fucks. In my opinion, politicians in general, merely surf from one idea to the next. Whichever is most politically acceptable to their particular voting base at the time. They HAVE to “go with the flow” or they get voted out. That’s just reality. And while there are politicians, like the esteemed Mr. Sanders, who yes, have a view, and have stuck by it. What has that actually GOTTEN them. He failed to gain his parties nomination. In general, politics, and politicians are fucked. The system is the best we have. Yes, but that doesn’t mean it’s the best option. Since it’s the ONLY current option, you feel free to follow it as closely as you want. I’m just gonna ignore it and wait for another option to present itself.
Also, a strawman argument is, by definition, designed to distract from a previously weak argument by pointing at something else non relevant or only marginally relevant. I am most certainly not doing that. I fully believe that jumping on the band wagon (MAGA for the right, and whatever is currently trendy with the left) is a perfect example of why politicians shouldnt be trusted. It displays their hypocrisy. And while Cohen is ostensibly “showing” us this. It’s been pretty obvious for as long as I’ve been able to understand the political system. So 3rd grade? And In my opinion, uninformed and infantile as it may be, watching a show like that, supporting him and the idea that “right wing politicians are stupid and gullible” is only gonna bite everybody in the ass. Either when politicians on the left fall prey to the same thing. Or when the left gets voted into a majority and enacts their own versions of whatever short sighted BS the right is trying to pull this week. No strawman argument here sir.
I think the point Aaron was making about the left’s vs. the right’s politicians in this case is, Cohen has gone after them both. And the conservative politicians have willingly taken part in commercials advertising soft toys with guns hidden in them, and gotten down on their knees and sucked a prosthetic phallus while gagging “I can fit two more of these in here.”
Progressive politicians like Sanders, however, just listened once to Cohen’s ludicrous bullshit, gave him a stupendous dose of stink-eye, and went “right, you’re an idiot, this conversation is over.”
I think there is probably an agenda-driven imbalance to the idiocy being shown vs. the good sense being shown, and to be fair there was also a “LOL no I’m not going to say that, I’m not an idiot” from one republican … but it’s telling.
Fair enough, as I refuse to watch any of the show, I only get information based on a “look what this moron did” basis. Which I avoid if at all possible. Cause I dont WANT to know what morons do, that’s why I quit Facebook.
Don’t kid a kidder, BRKN. You share a veritable circus freakshow of videos of morons doing things – just according to your own standards of entertainment.
And that is entirely acceptable and above reproach.
This is true. Also, knowing Sanders was featured in the show, makes his mentioning by mr.thepatriot far less straw like. I was puzzled at how he was relevant, but decided my inclusion of the ENTIRE left, did include him, and thus while only a small representative, did make his use a suitable retort. But it makes WAAY more sense now.
*nod*
Bernie gives the best side-eye in all my years of political activism. That’s like 12.
I would be willing to watch that clip. Not willing enough to go looking for it mind, but willing to watch it if it fell into my lap.
I’ll reply to the rest of this on lunch break but I feel the need to write this now before any video sharing occurs. I thought Cohen’s attempt on Bernie was weak and obvious. I was not using Bernie because he was on that show. He’s simply the only politician I can throw up against “all polician” insults without taking the time to think.
*sidles up to BRKN’s lap*
“Also, a strawman argument is, by definition, designed to distract from a previously weak argument by pointing at something else non relevant or only marginally relevant. I am most certainly not doing that.”
You don’t think you are doing that. And to be fair to you, you haven’t watched the videos, so you don’t even know what they are actually showing, so you really can’t be intentionally providing a distraction now can you?
But in fact, your shift to a topic of hypocrisy, instead of to the actual video evidence of willingness to give stuffed-animals-with-guns-in-them to 5 year olds, charging a terrorist with your ass hanging out to make him afraid of turning gay, and sucking his dick to prevent being beheaded, is a distraction. Because those have NOTHING to do with hypocrisy. If anything, they are exactly in line with how far-gone the right-wing in the US is. They are fully consistent with the single-mindedness the right-wing has on those issues.
So, not at all hypocritical. But you didn’t know that because you haven’t watched the videos, I got it.
“I fully believe that jumping on the band wagon (MAGA for the right, and whatever is currently trendy with the left) is a perfect example of why politicians shouldnt be trusted. It displays their hypocrisy. And while Cohen is ostensibly “showing” us this.”
That is not what he is showing. At least, not in the majority of the videos I’ve seen. He’s revealing long-standing Republican issues and they’re NOT being hypocrites on it. One could actually say the very few who refused are actually the hypocrites here.
“It’s been pretty obvious for as long as I’ve been able to understand the political system. So 3rd grade?”
Yes, I agree the hypocrisy is rampant. It’s also a human condition. Give a human power and watch it grow.
“And In my opinion, uninformed and infantile as it may be, watching a show like that, supporting him and the idea that “right wing politicians are stupid and gullible” is only gonna bite everybody in the ass.”
Possibly.
“Either when politicians on the left fall prey to the same thing. Or when the left gets voted into a majority and enacts their own versions of whatever short sighted BS the right is trying to pull this week.”
You’re LIVING UNDER the kind of “BS” we’re trying to “pull” here, goddamnit, in Finland. I suppose you’re having a horrible time of it? I mean, pay attention to the policies on offer or don’t, but stop splitting the middle and talking crap. Please.
“No strawman argument here sir.”
Well my mention of Bernie Sanders, which elsewhere you show you consider to be somewhat strawman-like, was in fact a counter-example to your assertion. Therefore, not a distraction, directly related to the topic, the farthest thing to a strawman.
“Ahh, I see where we diverged. You see MAGA as an argument of fearmongering (which it absolutely is), and the values of the left as grounded and rational (to be questioned, but not by me as I give zero fucks.”
What are the values of the left? My guiding principle is “will this make the world a better place or a worse one?” “Will this do more good than harm?”
I think that defines most of us on the left. So go ahead, and question that. If you can.
“In my opinion, politicians in general, merely surf from one idea to the next. Whichever is most politically acceptable to their particular voting base at the time. They HAVE to “go with the flow” or they get voted out. That’s just reality.”
You don’t understand what keeps politicians in office then, or at least you don’t know what the flow is. The flow is “what do I have to do to get massive corporate donor money, and massive independently wealthy persons money?” It has little to nothing to do with the policies the people want. Apologies if that’s what you meant but it didn’t read like that.
My policies (the ones I favor I mean) all have overwhelming majority support. But they are scorned.
Honestly if you don’t like politics and you ignore it, then please don’t try to tell me how you think it works.
“And while there are politicians, like the esteemed Mr. Sanders, who yes, have a view, and have stuck by it. What has that actually GOTTEN them.”
Way too open and complicated a question but to pretend they’ve gotten nothing reveals ignorance.
“He failed to gain his parties nomination. In general, politics, and politicians are fucked. The system is the best we have. Yes, but that doesn’t mean it’s the best option. Since it’s the ONLY current option, you feel free to follow it as closely as you want. I’m just gonna ignore it and wait for another option to present itself.”
If you’re gonna ignore it THEN IGNORE IT.
Link appears I my notifications, but not in your actual comment. I appreciate the thought though.
I just made a sleazy reference to falling into your lap.
Oh wait I get you, sorry. Yeah, links seem to work best on the PC and can be hit and miss on the phone.
This was too funny, so all you Finns take a look at what the fuck we’re hocking in America for back-to-school shopping.
Same theme, this time for real. No stuffed animals though. Just bullet shields in your jackets and backpacks.