Grand Long Weekend of Movie Reviews, 1 of 4: Edge of Tomorrow

I really liked this movie. The action was horrifyingly fast and sudden but (unlike with some movies) this didn’t seem like a bad thing, it was just a reality of these sorts of wars. It wasn’t jarring or confusing or annoying, it was just … you didn’t know when death was going to just suddenly happen, and that was one of the driving points of the story. To me, anyway.

So – and this shouldn’t be a spoiler because it’s basically in the trailer and the movie’s alternate title – this movie is about a character who gets killed, only to find himself waking up back on the previous morning, ready to relive the whole thing Groundhog Day-style. And each time he dies, he goes back to this apparently arbitrary point in time and starts over. Everything else replays perfectly and identically (until he alters things), allowing him to learn how events unfold and learn about the people he interacts with, which ultimately gives him precognitive-looking insight and reflexes and allows him to save humanity (okay, that was a bit of a spoiler).

Cage: douchebag.

Although he really did start out as a douchebag, which I guess was a nice character arc. Not entirely sure whether the plan was always to get him onto the front lines and killed, or what the general was playing at here … but okay. It served to get him started.

Now, there are problems with this premise.

First of all, every breath of air Cage breathes and every movement he makes would spin off a different version of events. He couldn’t have even a slightly different conversation, stand in even a slightly different spot or do anything even a millisecond out of whack with the previous time, and have any clue about where the next bullet was going to fly, where the next punch was going to fall, who was going to say what for the rest of the day. He could not dance through a repeated day in perfectly-choreographed smarminess because the first few moments of his doing so would cause a new and entirely unpredictable sequence of responses to occur. They seem to lampshade this a bit in their attempted escape-from-the-beach choreography and how it turns out to be well-nigh impossible, but they don’t take it far enough. It would be impossible.

But whatever. We ignore this because otherwise the movie would be a lot less fun (although I argue that it could still be pulled off, just without the Groundhog Day gimmick). Not a complaint, therefore – just … I don’t know, a thing that I had to actively ignore.

Groundhog Day

That’s right, woodchuck chuckers, it’s Groundhog Day!

Also, what happens to all those other timelines where Vrataski shoots Cage in the head? Do they toddle on and hide the body and trust that things go right in another universe? Or does everything cease to exist the moment he dies, and then starts over on the clean slate? I’m going to go with the latter, but I rather like the former actually.

Why don't we put Tom Cruise in charge?

Check it out, Ripley … yeah, I didn’t stop making Aliens jokes, basically all the way through.

Bloody chunder!

Bloody chunder, there was even an Australian in it.

But no. My biggest problem, and again not really a problem as such, was the sheer preposterousness of the mechanism. How an alien life-form like that would ever happen, with that sort of ludicrously specific natural ability, and not basically instantly and simultaneously occupy the entire material universe is beyond me. And passing the power on to a human by getting killed by said human, and the power lasting until the human’s blood is replaced … I … no, I just really had to put blinkers on and ignore the whole thing. It was magic. It was a really great effort at a sciencey-wiencey explanation but it was fucking magic. Just say “magic”.

Starship Troopers

Damn bugs set a trap for us, didn’t they … oh yeah, I also made Starship Troopers jokes. Funnily enough, both this and Starship Troopers were originally adapted out of books. But I haven’t read the original book All You Need Is Kill, so I can’t comment. Starship Troopers differed pretty wildly from the book. Having checked the Wikipedia page, I’m going to with “so did this one.”

Then with the alien biology and the weird time-skip disease came the transponder and the visions and the omega and the weird ending where time reset but the alien was still dead (the alphas resetting the day I can understand because the omega did it, but what reset time when the omega died[1]?) … okay. It was great. But difficult to process.

[1] Actually my immediate comment while watching this movie was, “…and it turned out there were actually six omegas scattered around Earth, because nature loves redundancy.” And when Cage woke up to find it was a couple of days earlier, I thought cool, so maybe this means there were extra omegas and they’ll just be back at square one … but no, it was just a semi-nonsensical ploy to give them all a happy ending.

Classic.

Cage got to do this scene, and survive. Which was nice.

In fact, it seems that this is what happened in the book – they had to kill all the alphas, then at least one of the looping humans, and then the omega. And the hero continued along the time-stream with his girlfriend dead.

But those things aside, this was a really fun movie. Some great scenes and some even greater character development and interaction. And like I said, the action scenes were brilliantly done. I even liked the look of the aliens.

Alien oh-face.

Let me show you my “oh” face.

I admit, when I first saw them move in that weird stop-motion way, I thought that must be some element of the omega’s ability to time-shift. Was I alone in that? They seemed to be flicking in and out of ordinary space-time, rather than just moving really fast. But then we find out that the only thing the omega can do is reset the day on which an alpha dies, which gives it functionally infinite retakes on a single given day until it gets it right … but wouldn’t, as far as I can see, give the aliens that form of motion.

I’m just going to assume it could do other stuff as well, with some secondary time-altering ability, which was why the drones and alphas all moved in that creepy way. Unfortunately, this just adds another layer to the “how the Hell have these aliens evolved, and how the Hell do they not already fill the entire universe from end to end?” conundrum.

Still, a nice movie. Worth a watch.

LULZ

As an end note, I should add that I got these screencaps from a website where the number of views of each cap was logged. Most of them were 0, or 1. Except, of course, Emily Blunt’s sexy pushups. Heh.
Advertisements
This entry was posted in Hatboy's Movie Extravaganza and tagged . Bookmark the permalink.

53 Responses to Grand Long Weekend of Movie Reviews, 1 of 4: Edge of Tomorrow

  1. dreameling says:

    !! SPOILERS !!

    First of all, every breath of air Cage breathes and every movement he makes would spin off a different version of events. He couldn’t have even a slightly different conversation, stand in even a slightly different spot or do anything even a millisecond out of whack with the previous time, and have any clue about where the next bullet was going to fly, where the next punch was going to fall, who was going to say what for the rest of the day. He could not dance through a repeated day in perfectly-choreographed smarminess because the first few moments of his doing so would cause a new and entirely unpredictable sequence of responses to occur. They seem to lampshade this a bit in their attempted escape-from-the-beach choreography and how it turns out to be well-nigh impossible, but they don’t take it far enough. It would be impossible.

    You seem to be assuming that just because Cage turns his head a little differently at reset start, that tiny micro-level change already in itself would always cascade into a completely different macro-level chain of events (and all this before you pile on all the other second-to-second responses and variations)? As in, you seem to be assuming that the universe is really random? Or just extremely chaotic? Correct me if I’m reading you wrong.

    In any case, this did not bother me that much, since I can buy the idea that the ripple effect of minor changes in Cage’s behavior will diffuse into the sea of determinism around him. Sure, Cage can never exactly repeat the same actions, he will always be at least a few milliseconds off, and these changes will accumulate and ripple out, but there’s a threshold at which such minor changes become meaningful to the surrounding world. Below that threshold, it’s just inconsequential variation. For example, I don’t think we humans are such behaviorally precise beings that tiny changes in and around us affect our main intentions and actions, at least consciously.

    In short, if Cage does roughly the same things at a given point, and assuming that point has not changed drastically from his actions preceding that point, roughly the same things will always happen to him at that point. I’ll buy that. (I don’t care what chaos theory says. (But I will accept that my macro-world-accustomed intuition may prevent me from fully appreciating how chaotic even minor changes can be. (Still don’t care, though.)))

    But no. My biggest problem, and again not really a problem as such, was the sheer preposterousness of the mechanism. How an alien life-form like that would ever happen, with that sort of ludicrously specific natural ability, and not basically instantly and simultaneously occupy the entire material universe is beyond me. And passing the power on to a human by getting killed by said human, and the power lasting until the human’s blood is replaced … I … no, I just really had to put blinkers on and ignore the whole thing. It was magic. It was a really great effort at a sciencey-wiencey explanation but it was fucking magic. Just say “magic”.

    Indeed. The less said about that, the better. Magic. Let’s just accept it.

    As an end note, I should add that I got these screencaps from a website where the number of views of each cap was logged. Most of them were 0, or 1. Except, of course, Emily Blunt’s sexy pushups. Heh.

    Oh, man, she was hot.

    • stchucky says:

      Your comment was too long for my WordPress for Windows Phone to handle, and I couldn’t be bothered blockquoting or adding spoilerblanks.

      But essentially I agree with you. I tolerated what I saw as nonsensical in this movie because it was necessary to tell a cool story. Fucking magic, man.

      Otherwise, since we are probably never going to get to see a repeating time-loop and witness the micro- or macro-changes in each iteration as created by a single loop-aware subject, it boils down to how we personally think it would happen. And I think the effect of different actions would lead to reactions sufficient to nullify the subject’s “knowledge” of what happens next. Because he only knows what happened last time. Elementary game theory and psychology suggests that the researcher guy would not hold up two fingers, not once it became clear Cage knew what was happening. He’d change to none, or something else. The very fact of their arrival ten minutes earlier or later would affect his thinking and make him “randomly” pick a different number. Now, like I say we are probably never going to get verification on this so your opinion is worth as much as mine.

      Now it is also true that there are self-correcting mechanisms. For example, it doesn’t matter if a conversation the day before lasts a few seconds longer, the beach invasion was still going to kick off at 0700 hours or whatever, so that is something of a reset. Psycho grinning guy is always going to get pasted with that napalm. And there could be plenty more reset points that are less obvious.

      Overall though, nope. Not buying it. Or yep, buying it, but only because it was a fun story.

      • aaronthepatriot says:

        I agree with Timo, enough of your “butterfly flaps its wings in Tokyo” crap, you’re channeling me too strongly in this area of your critique. And you know, the butterfly MAY make a hurricane on the other side of the world, but it won’t happen *immediately* and it might not happen at *all*. Because, Chaos right? So the small stuff will happen the same in this localized part of the world except when he takes major actions.

        And I think we can take this also as a function of the Omega’s reset ability, perhaps, since we don’t really understand how that works, as it relates to the alphas. Maybe they are excluded from the chaos as a function of the Omega’s ability, and only more significant actions can alter the reset timeline? At any rate this aspect really isn’t a problem because that’s the premise of the movie, right? I seem to recall you using similar arguments on me.

        I have more to say about your other criticisms but that will have to wait. They did discuss how successful the race is at taking over other worlds, and how it works each time and how it can fail. But I’ll get to that, I want to make sure it’s not in these comments first.

  2. thelinza says:

    The timeline where they hide the body et cetera would never have happened, because it was Cage resetting time every time he died. The arbitrary point was the exact moment he last woke up / regained consciousness. I wish they would have played with that a little (like the day getting shorter because he got knocked out but didn’t die/reset).

    This, as with all time travel movies, has to avoid talking too much about the mechanism or they’ll lose 90% of the audience that doesn’t give a crap how it works or is incapable of understanding it even if it were explained well. There’s a reason nobody but engineers liked Primer.

    I liked how Emily Blunt was playing what is usually the male protagonist role (protect the Special) and Cruise was playing what is usually the female protagonist role (be an emotional princess that needs her hand held and things explained).

    • stchucky says:

      Yeah, I figured it was the latter (as I said in the original post) – Cage’s death literally causing the entire multiverse to cease existing and reform around his awakening the previous morning. Fine. I just prefer the idea of infinite surviving timestreams, although it really does take away the give-a-shit value of the one thin surviving thread universe where things go right.

      Blunt’s heroism may have been cooler if Cruise hadn’t moved Heaven and Earth to save her at the end (and if she hadn’t been such a dumbarse about that helicopter), but that in turn might have made Cruise’s presence in the movie redundant. Which, in a way, it was.

      Prequel with Battle of Verdun plz.

      • Aaron the Time-Traveling Patriot says:

        Hey, I have a bigger brain than anyone, or at least in objective terms of measurements, and cognitive usage and standardised testing-
        Original text:

        I think we can basically consider we’ve been shown just about exactly what happened at Verdun, minus the losing horribly part. Since they let us win there. But she did basically what Cruise did, only more successfully right up to when she failed to find the Omega, just as Cruise did at that dam, and lost her power due to losing too much blood. But I’d watch it, sure. Watched this 4 times after all.

    • aaronthepatriot says:

      Well observed about the role reversal of the sexes for the two main characters, I didn’t even notice it (probably because I don’t care who plays what as long as it’s good), but now that you mention it, yeah. And I’m glad you feel that way about it, too…it’s reassuring to see a success on that issue acknowledged.

      • thelinza says:

        It was done so seamlessly that I didn’t notice it until the whole “I’ll lead the alphas away” heroics that Vertaski does at the end. I was like…. omg Tom Cruise makes such a good princess… and Emily Blunt makes such a good badass…

        ❤ Emily Blunt

      • aaronthepatriot says:

        Agreed on all points…LOL Kiss her again, that was nice….

  3. aaronthepatriot says:

    I’m really glad you finally saw this and really glad you liked it. To sum up the previous points, I believe you have convinced me that if there are different unprovable ways things can be explained, I should just relax and let one of the unprovable ones be the plot.

    ‘Or does everything cease to exist the moment he dies, and then starts over on the clean slate?’

    Yeah, that’s what happens. As Linza said I think.

    ‘But no. My biggest problem, and again not really a problem as such, was the sheer preposterousness of the mechanism. How an alien life-form like that would ever happen, with that sort of ludicrously specific natural ability, and not basically instantly and simultaneously occupy the entire material universe is beyond me.’

    This was explained. First, they disseminate themselves by sending out asteroids through the galaxy, so it takes some time to spread. Second, they ARE taking over quite a lot of the galaxy, according to what was said in the movie, I believe, and surely in the book. Third, there is a situation that has occurred, that foils the approach, again mentioned in the movie. It is thus: the dominant life form MUST attack the Omega to wake it up and start the process of rebooting and creating alphas and so on. Therefore a fully advanced race that doesn’t just attack anything that looks different would completely ruin the plan and that planet would be safe.

    But the first point is how it isn’t “instantly and simultaneously”.

    ‘ And passing the power on to a human by getting killed by said human, and the power lasting until the human’s blood is replaced … I … no, I just really had to put blinkers on and ignore the whole thing. It was magic. It was a really great effort at a sciencey-wiencey explanation but it was fucking magic. Just say “magic”.’

    “Any sufficiently advanced technology, to a primitive person, will be indistinguishable from magic,” I paraphrase. But no. No, no, no. I don’t understand why you are taking apart this movie so much. And you have it wrong (technically). Killing an Alpha does NOT pass the power on. In fact, killing an Alpha resets the day, just as killing Cruise does. Since he’s effectively an Alpha. But yes having a large amount of your blood replaced removes the ability.

    If you think about what this might be hinting at, it all becomes far less magic-y. Nanotechnology. I say their power is held in their blood through nanotechnology, and if you get enough of it in you, the nanobots give YOU that power too. That also fits with the communications you start to get with the Omega…it’s sending out a signal to all of its Alphas. I bet the Alphas themselves have nanobot factories in them, so you could bleed them and transfuse and they’d keep their power. But for Cruise and the other humans so blessed with that power, there’s a limited amount in their blood and if they are drained before resetting, game over.

    So think of it as advanced nanotech. Oh and speaking of advanced tech, check out Ex Machina, I saw it last weekend and it was INCREDIBLE. Loved it. Thrilling.

    As for the final reset, yeah, hollywood ending, I didn’t like that. As for the book, killing all the Alphas…that goes against everything they say in the movie, so I don’t understand. It seems inconsistent with the aliens’ resetting ability, remember they took great care to not kill even ONE alpha during the big final attack. Not sure how the book has a different logic, kind of interested to read it now.

    As for their motion, yeah, that was good thinking. Maybe they all have some of the nanotech giving them a bit of time-control…phase-shifting or something…which accounts for their deadliness and their flickering motion. Or maybe it’s just a cool visual effect that makes their fighting even more impressive.

    • stchucky says:

      Yep, I think you’ll be much happier if you just let me ignore how preposterous I found those aliens to be in favour of the fun story, instead of trying to convince me they weren’t preposterous.

      • Aaron the Time-Traveling Patriot says:

        Nothing. End of the world. Why?
        Original text:

        I’m not happy with the scale of your reply to mine, but as to what you just wrote there, sure. As they say, six of one, half dozen the other. Right?

      • stchucky says:

        I replied according to my time and interest levels, so this is what you get. I was satisfied that I’d expressed my opinion, and I assumed you’d expressed yours. Go ahead and factor in my actual post’s word count as well as my other responses into your calculation of my reply’s worthiness though. Since apparently that’s a thing.

        *snicker*

    • stchucky says:

      I don’t understand why you are taking apart this movie so much.

      I wasn’t taking it apart. I repeat, I tolerated what I saw as nonsensical in this movie because it was necessary to tell a cool story.

      And you ignored my acknowledgement of day-script reset points: “Now it is also true that there are self-correcting mechanisms. For example, it doesn’t matter if a conversation the day before lasts a few seconds longer, the beach invasion was still going to kick off at 0700 hours or whatever, so that is something of a reset. Psycho grinning guy is always going to get pasted with that napalm. And there could be plenty more reset points that are less obvious.”

      All in all, though, I personally am left convinced that the changes a loop-aware person would make right from the start would make the day progress differently – not enormously differently, but differently enough that his punch-dodging and conversation-reciting would not work. But as I have said at least three times now, I ignored it because it was cool. Please stop making it more difficult for me to ignore, jerk.

      And yes, I remember the explanation of the alien attack mechanism and how it only works if there is a species that attacks first, or whatever. I’m really trying to ignore that element of the exposition, so you really should just let me.

      I agree with Timo, enough of your “butterfly flaps its wings in Tokyo” crap, you’re channeling me too strongly in this area of your critique.

      That’s not remotely what dreameling said. He asked if that was the gist of what I was saying, and said he personally didn’t find that to be an issue because in his opinion it would work out differently.

      This is how people express opinions. Even if – inconceivable! – they disagree with the opinions of others.

      And I wasn’t channelling you. I was expressing my opinion of why I had to actively ignore something I saw as not really making sense, and that I did so because it made for a great story. I even said it wasn’t a complaint. That could not be further from channelling you in a critique.

      If you want me to start channelling you, just keep it up.

      Maybe they are excluded from the chaos as a function of the Omega’s ability, and only more significant actions can alter the reset timeline?

      Sure, I’m on board with that. Or maybe Cage’s fart-cloud of tiny unobtanium robots keeps everybody on-script nearby him.

      You know what would actually be really cool – no joke – would be if the nanobots weren’t resetting time, but that they had infused the entire planet or at least everything in contact with the alien host. Then, every twenty-four hours, a pulse goes through the system and if things aren’t going well, the omega can hit “undo” and it rebuilds everything on a molecular level, reconstructing the previous day even though in reality time is still ticking on. So it just reconstructs the scene, right down to the memories and synapses, so to all intents and purposes time has repeated itself, only the omega knows what went wrong last time. Could also help keep things on-script to some degree, and also explain the mimics’ movement.

      Still makes it well-nigh impossible for them to ever be defeated anywhere, without some sort of correspondingly brilliant weapon or natural defence, but it would have been cool. Especially since you could then have some areas, like the civilians in the bar or elsewhere some distance from the war, being aware that the aliens have actually been on Earth for years, while the army thinks the fight has just been a devastatingly brutal month or two.

      At any rate this aspect really isn’t a problem because that’s the premise of the movie, right? I seem to recall you using similar arguments on me.

      Yes, and I said the same thing here too, basically. Right from the start. Redundant comment is redundant.

      Now, since you said “I believe you have convinced me that if there are different unprovable ways things can be explained, I should just relax and let one of the unprovable ones be the plot”, I thought we were all on the same page and done.

      “Any sufficiently advanced technology, to a primitive person, will be indistinguishable from magic,” I paraphrase. But no. No, no, no.

      No? That’s a bummer, because I’m perfectly happy with that as an explanation. And timey-wimey nanobots, as you suggest? Why not? In fact, if they were quantum-level tiny, wouldn’t they be that much more feasible as devices with time-space altering properties? Works for me.

      Still sufficiently preposterous that I was happy to just meh past it and enjoy the story.

      And yes, I was simplifying because Cage got the ability by killing an alpha, and so did the Angel of Verdun. So he got that shit in his blood and then got the power. I know that killing an alpha resets the day. I also know that killing an alpha from a distance with a rocket probably wouldn’t pass on the power. But Cage killing the alpha, or getting killed by its blood, was what got the power passed on to him. If we’re going to go with unobtanium nanobots, that’s fine with me.

      • dreameling says:

        That’s not remotely what dreameling said.

        Bloody hell. Not this shit again. If you guys start again arguing over your interpretation of my intent, I’m quiting this blog. For like two days. Then I’ll come back and laugh at the fallout. By fuck. [1]

        For the record, so that we are absolutely clear and on the same page on this, I agree and disagree with both of you, but more so with the other, and relative to the pertinence of points made.

        [1] I’m totally on the same page with thelinza.

      • stchucky says:

        I don’t give a crap what your intent was! You didn’t say my post was “butterfly flaps its wings in Tokyo crap” and tell me “enough”, so end of God damn story.

      • stchucky says:

        ‘Cos if you had said that, I would have ripped you a new one!

      • thelinza says:

        What’s going on you guys?
        Original text:

        What I think dreameling said, by fuck! [1]

        [1] This isn’t ever going away.

      • stchucky says:

        I have created a monster.

      • dreameling says:

        And we all love it.

      • dreameling says:

        (I chose not to add “by fuck” there because it would’ve been too obvious.)

  4. aaronthepatriot says:

    “That’s not remotely what dreameling said.”

    Incorrect. He said “I don’t care about chaos theory” (paraphrase slightly because too lazy to look up there again. That is *exactly* what the butterfly crap I said is. Chaos theory. So it’s *exactly* what dreamling said, just in different words. Capisce?

    “Bloody hell. Not this shit again. If you guys start again arguing over your interpretation of my intent, I’m quiting this blog. For like two days. Then I’ll come back and laugh at the fallout. By fuck. [1]

    For the record, so that we are absolutely clear and on the same page on this, I agree and disagree with both of you, but more so with the other, and relative to the pertinence of points made.

    [1] I’m totally on the same page with thelinza.”

    LOL well it totally was what you said. I demand you tell me what you disagree with! NAO!

    • stchucky says:

      Bahahaha, fine.

      • aaronthepatriot says:

        By the way, I did notice your longer reply and was terribly tempted to TL;DR it based on your “I’m too busy to respond to blog comments, you should all just be glad sometimes I write detailed blog entries, FFS!” You richly deserve such a response but alas, that joke was already played early in the game here, darn it. The truth is, I will give it attention and reply, just not today.

      • stchucky says:

        By the way, I did notice your longer reply and was terribly tempted to TL;DR it based on your “I’m too busy to respond to blog comments, you should all just be glad sometimes I write detailed blog entries, FFS!” You richly deserve such a response

        Golly, it’s just as well I didn’t post my original response to your “I’m not happy with the scale of your reply to mine”[1] scolding! If I’d just gone with that response, I would have saved way more time!

        See? Even as a gif, it’s faster!

        [1] Please note, this is an actual quote of what you actually typed. It is not an incorrect paraphrase based on what the words turned into somewhere between the screen and my Arroneous brain.

        And please don’t insult us all by saying you’d TL;DR a post. Especially not a post about a movie you’ve wanted to talk about for months, which is why you came hurtling in here with both fists swinging and both feet kicking, and wrecked up the place.

        Yes. Tommy Boy style.

        The truth is, I will give it attention and reply, just not today.

        Awesome. As a special fun pro handicap, see if you can try doing it without being a combative, over-entitled douchecrumpet this time.

      • aaronthepatriot says:

        Never mind. Lost interest. You are being ridiculously unfair to the film in a way you certainly didn’t do with The Gone Away World, like that premise makes any more sense than the premise you have to accept in this movie, but whatever. You did *exactly* as unfair a hatchet job on all the stuff you “had to overlook” in this movie as I was doing on The Gone Away World, so yes, channeling me. The difference is, you have 3 people shouting at you that you don’t have to “overlook” that stuff because it *can* make sense, and yet you dig in and even say this makes it *harder* for you to overlook those things. Whatever.

        You’re right, I *was* looking forward to your movie review here. But man, did you ruin that.

      • stchucky says:

        Suits me. All I can say is that I did like the film and I did ignore the parts I found implausible, because it was a great story. Just like I did with Groundhog Day. But since I have been saying that over and over, never mind.

      • aaronthepatriot says:

        Nice collection of ad hominem attacks on me, too, in this last comment. Not sure why they’re there, but unless you count me saying you are “channeling” me as ad hominem, I gave you none, thus far. I do have similar feelings about the way *you* have responded in these comments as you seem to have about me, but there’s no need to attack you just because we’re debating something. Right?

      • stchucky says:

        Nice collection of ad hominem attacks on me, too, in this last comment.

        I was particularly proud of “douchecrumpet”, since I had just returned from Mother England.

        I do have similar feelings about the way *you* have responded in these comments as you seem to have about me

        I’d be disappointed in you if you didn’t!

        but there’s no need to attack you just because we’re debating something. Right?

        Since when were we debating? Was it before or after I said that these are two interpretations of a phenomenon we will most likely never get to see in practice so one opinion is worth as much as another, and you agreed with me and said “I believe you have convinced me that if there are different unprovable ways things can be explained, I should just relax and let one of the unprovable ones be the plot”[1]? Maybe it was when you (and, by virtue of his wimpy scumbag neutrality, dreameling) summarily dismissed my point of view with “enough of your “butterfly flaps its wings in Tokyo” crap”?

        [1] Because this is, all along, what I was doing here. After outlining my dubiousness with the premise, I went “but meh, great story so I don’t count this as a complaint.” All the “debate” since has just served to turn the mild niggling itch into a huge open sore.

        Still a cool story, though.

        Not sure why they’re there, but unless you count me saying you are “channeling” me as ad hominem, I gave you none, thus far.

        You know perfectly well that you don’t need to call someone a douchecrumpet to be offensive. Don’t shit in my lap and tell me it’s a napkin.

      • dreameling says:

        Jesus Fucking Christ. You guys are actually fighting? I thought this was some sort of mock-battle of douche-wittery. Man, did I read you wrong.

        I don’t like it when the grownups are fighting. It’s so exhausting. Especially when you kinda end up caught in the middle-ish.

        For the record, though, I was thinking of the Butterfly Effect (among other things) in my original reply, which Aaron picked up on, although I did not ascribe it to Chucky as such. (Hence my questions. I wasn’t entirely sure where he was coming from.) While perfectly valid chaos-theoretical science, I just don’t like it as an argument against the “plausibility” of the sort of time-loop variation (or lack thereof) we see in Edge. Simply my intuition. And it’s so cliché anyway. But it seems none of us like it, so not sure what the problem is. Aaron’s “the small stuff will happen the same in this localized part of the world except when he takes major actions”, Chucky’s “self-correcting mechanisms”, and my “inconsequential variation” mostly amount to the same thing. Right?

        I do agree with Chucky, though, that the memorized fist fight is pushing it, since that might rely on such minute and subtle choices and responses and movements that even minor variation might betray any attempt of trying to repeat it from memory. But I still kinda buy it. We don’t have all the facts of the situation, of everything that went into creating that moment then and there. And, something to keep in mind, accumulating differences in actions need not always result in accumulating differences in results: you might end up in exactly the same place, minor or major, by myriad different routes.

        I also agree with Chucky that the time-loop mechanism is magic. That a species would evolve such a specific ability (and a time-bending ability no less) simply rubs my sense of “realism” the wrong way. But, again, it’s just intuition. It’s not like I’ve met such species before. Unlike both of you, though, I don’t but your nanotech solution. How or why would nanotech adapted to an alien physiology be compatible with human physiology and metabolism? Could nanotech even ever evolve by natural selection, no matter how strange and alien? What I would buy, though, maybe, was if the aliens were a created species, maybe a world-ending weapon specifically bioengineered by some advanced culture. The nanotech would fit that just fine. But the movie provides zero evidence for this, so magic it is. I also don’t get Chucky’s “instantly and simultaneously”, because resetting time doesn’t get you across interstellar space any faster. (Unless the Omega or its creator spent decades or centuries brainstorming and field-testing instant space travel and just resetting time over and over again when it could. Cheat.)

        But I don’t mind some magic if the story is otherwise interesting and well-told. I can gloss over it, no problem.

      • stchucky says:

        Jesus Fucking Christ. You guys are actually fighting? I thought this was some sort of mock-battle of douche-wittery. Man, did I read you wrong.

        To be honest, I thought it was a douchewar. Aaron was champing at the bit for this movie and really liked it, and so he came on strong as always, and I thought it would be fun to fight back after he started tish-and-pishing my take on the thing.

        Now evidently, although I don’t want to put words in his mouth, Aaron felt more strongly about the movie and really felt as though my “criticism”[1] was intended to tear the movie to bits, and that spoiled his enjoyment. I definitely didn’t intend that. In fact, if we’d just ignored that “criticism” in the Comments section, I wouldn’t have seen any reason to even think about it again. We could just as easily have focussed on the possible solutions and explanations for how it worked, which I thought was interesting. Or we could have ignored it completely, and talked about hairdos or something, I don’t know.

        [1] I will say, again, that it was never a criticism – it’s just my opinion that the way a repeating-day time-loop would work is completely different to the way it works in Groundhog Day and Edge of Tomorrow, and I had to ignore that. And I did, because it’s a cool story. And we’re never going to see a repeating-day time-loop in action, so one opinion is the same as another. Which was where I was pretty sure our discussion on the topic began and ended, and Aaron’s comments led me to think he felt the same way, until he started in with the “enough of your crap”. Which, in turn, I took for his usual funtoolery[2].

        [2] It’s like tomfoolery, but … Aaron. *grin*

        And yes, as to the insult-slinging – it was (and still is) my way of responding to the dismissal and condescension, which I did think was Aaron’s usual version of light-heartedness. Clearly I mis-read as well. Call it desensitisation due to long exposure. Add in an over-snippy reply to his “I’m not happy with the scale of your reply to mine” comment, and it’s not difficult to set things off.

        But yeah, I’m in a fabulous mood and really was thinking this was fun. Even at the end here when Aaron lost interest, I figured he was on the level and had just gotten bored since we had discussed all the angles.

        For the record, though, I was thinking of the Butterfly Effect (among other things) in my original reply, which Aaron picked up on, although I did not ascribe it to Chucky as such.

        I know you were. And as Aaron said, and I agree with, that sort of Chaos Theory stuff might apply in some sense but it is too long-term to affect something in the course of a day. It’s just a shorthand for Chaos Theory-related action-reaction-cause-effect-wossnames. But my thinking is basically along those lines. For example:

        In the 1st run-through Cage wakes up, on-your-feet-maggot, and goes and talks to Hudson (or possibly Hicks). The conversation goes that way. In the 235th run-through Cage jumps up, on-your-fee- oh, and not only does this change the entire attitude of the drill instructor, it also changes the timetable of Cage’s conversation with Hicks (or possibly Hudson[3]). Ten seconds of strolling through an army base, a person will be thinking fifteen different things and seeing a hundred different things, and depending on what someone says to that person and when, will dictate that person’s responses. The second Cage finished one of Farell’s sentences, the whole tone of the dialogue would have shifted.

        [3] No, my bad, it was Farell. Aliens joke.

        In the same way, where you’re standing will dictate what you can see in the background, which also changes things. Little stuff.

        I’m not saying it would be super-different and totally diverge. Like I said already, and at last you acknowledged (harumph), there are reset points such as the army’s timetable that will keep large-scale events happening the same way. The beach battle will always be a massacre (as far as I could tell there was no way out of that). The sun will always set at the same time. Whatever. But dodging a bullet or a punch, guessing exactly what someone is going to say and how they will respond? Nope. Not for me. Although I ignore this because the story is cool.

        Aaron’s “the small stuff will happen the same in this localized part of the world except when he takes major actions”, Chucky’s “self-correcting mechanisms”, and my “inconsequential variation” mostly amount to the same thing. Right?

        Basically, yes. My problem was purely with the absolute foresight Cage seemed to gain about tiny things, not the overall gist of how the day was going to go. And I thought they were lampshading that by showing how difficult it was to choreograph their way out of the beach battle. Too many variables. Turns out they went some of the way with it, but stopped short of showing that it was completely impossible to dance your way out of a fight with so many moving parts. In my opinion it would have been impossible. Although I ignore this because the story is cool.

        I do agree with Chucky, though, that the memorized fist fight is pushing it, since that might rely on such minute and subtle choices and responses and movements that even minor variation might betray any attempt of trying to repeat it from memory. But I still kinda buy it. We don’t have all the facts of the situation, of everything that went into creating that moment then and there. And, something to keep in mind, accumulating differences in actions need not always result in accumulating differences in results: you might end up in exactly the same place, minor or major, by myriad different routes.

        Thank you.

        What would have been nice would be seeing that fight happen in slightly different places and playing out in different ways. Did he actually die and reset there, beaten to death by J squad[4]? Or did he ever get hospitalised? Always died on the beach the next day, or getting shot by Vrataski?

        Although I ignore this because the story is cool.

        [4] In fact, how likely is it that he would have been absolutely pasted by those guys, and ended up needing a blood transfusion? Really lucky the Earth wasn’t doomed right there. Would also have been neat to see this actually happening, and Cage whipping out a gun and shooting himself in the head before it could. Come on, that would have been brilliant.

        I also agree with Chucky that the time-loop mechanism is magic. That a species would evolve such a specific ability (and a time-bending ability no less) simply rubs my sense of “realism” the wrong way. But, again, it’s just intuition. It’s not like I’ve met such species before.

        Or maybe you have, but you’re doing that day over again right fucking now.

        Ever think of that, smart guy?

        Unlike both of you, though, I don’t buy (typo fixed – Ed) your nanotech solution. How or why would nanotech adapted to an alien physiology be compatible with human physiology and metabolism?

        Well, I’m no scientist but wouldn’t nanotech be about the only way it could happen? We’re all made up of pretty much the same molecules and atoms, right? So the robots could rebuild the blood (or themselves) according to their needs, in a way biology probably couldn’t[5]. I admit adjusting for actual physiology is a tricky one, but what the heck.

        [5] Unless it was time-hopping day-resetting alien biology, in which case maybe it could. In fact, maybe the alpha’s blood could do that shit on a smaller scale, which is why the mimics moved that way – they’re resetting on a microsecond level, not enough to avoid dying all the time, but enough to make them move funny. And I thought Cage did the same when the blood was burning him, a little bit.

        And I don’t think the nanotech was evolved, I’m pretty sure it would have to be a technological development process even if those aliens looked pretty primal. That’s aliens, man.

        Or maybe it’s just a matter of biology so complex and adaptable (due to time shenanigans) that it blurs with nanotechnology. Nanobiotech. Why not? Aliens.

        What I would buy, though, maybe, was if the aliens were a created species, maybe a world-ending weapon specifically bioengineered by some advanced culture. The nanotech would fit that just fine.

        Works for me. Augmented xenomorphs. Chronomorphs?

        Why were they called mimics when they could have been called chronomorphs[6]?

        [6] Okay, because of the book. Whatever.

        I also don’t get Chucky’s “instantly and simultaneously”, because resetting time doesn’t get you across interstellar space any faster. (Unless the Omega or its creator spent decades or centuries brainstorming and field-testing instant space travel and just resetting time over and over again when it could. Cheat.)

        This is what I was thinking, and this is perhaps one problem with this being a conscious technological / biotech thing that they developed. Because once you have the power to turn back time for a day, why do you stop developing there? A few millennia (or, as the mimics call it, “a day”) of experimentation and you could basically do anything. That’s why I thought the aliens should have filled the entire universe by now. Or, more accurately, by the moment after the Big Bang.

        But I don’t mind some magic if the story is otherwise interesting and well-told. I can gloss over it, no problem.

        That’s what I said. Over and over again, like I’d been dipped in alpha blood or something and then let loose on the Internet.

      • stchucky says:

        [4] In fact, how likely is it that he would have been absolutely pasted by those guys, and ended up needing a blood transfusion? Really lucky the Earth wasn’t doomed right there. Would also have been neat to see this actually happening, and Cage whipping out a gun and shooting himself in the head before it could. Come on, that would have been brilliant.

        For that matter, answer me this: when we see that fight happen, he has clearly been through it many times and is weary with the whole thing and just phones it in. Why did he not just go back by a different route and avoid them completely?

        Again, this was something I will happily ignore because it was a funny scene. But it’s certainly a question, right? I guess that explains it! Toffee?

      • aaronthepatriot says:

        Nanotech was just one suggestion, I made it up, as far as I know it’s NOT what the writer(s) thoughts were. I like all you said, dreameling, thanks for weighing back in. As to the fistfight, which doesn’t need to be a major issue because to make it one is incredibly pedantic, it wasn’t a HUGE deal what he was able to predict…wasn’t it just one punch, maybe 2? People have their proclivities. AND, the most important thing I feel isn’t being taken into account here with regards to these small variations making a big enough change… *we probably haven’t fucking seen every loop through time!!!!!!!!!^ Geezus fucking christ! What if, for example, the movie only showed us 10% of them? 1%? Then all those small change failures you so desperately want to happen, Hatboy, DO happen. You can have it all! And this would make sense, because a 2 hour (or whatever) movie can only show us so much. In that case, the plot isn’t pretending these small changes won’t affect things, but again, he tries and tries again and eventually, it works.

        And remember, the only “loop” that really matters is the one he kills the omega. So you’re really, truly sweating the small stuff (And being really defensive of how fucking clever you are to sweat the small stuff, I’m talking to Hatboy here) to nitpick each loop’s individual likelihood like that.

      • stchucky says:

        Oh, we definitely didn’t see all the loops. Not even close! I got hints of this at the helicopter scene (actually that wasn’t so much a hint as a flat-out statement), as well as some of the other scenes where Cage chats Vrataski up, talks to her about sex, talks about her middle name, and so on. And of course we only see that fist-fight once, when obviously it happened dozens of times (at least).

        In which case, it’s a bummer we didn’t see more of the variations instead of an iceberg-tip cherry-pick of the ones that went exactly the same as the original, allowing him to sleepwalk it. But again, ignored because it’s cool.

        And as I also already said, it’s cool that they did lampshade this a bit with the beach fight. It shows that there are a lot of little details that are damned difficult to work through. I liked that.

        I also liked the nanotech idea.

        I like all you said, dreameling, thanks for weighing back in.
        to make it one is incredibly pedantic
        we probably haven’t fucking seen every loop through time!!!!!!!!!^ Geezus fucking christ!
        failures you so desperately want to happen, Hatboy,
        (And being really defensive of how fucking clever you are to sweat the small stuff, I’m talking to Hatboy here)

      • dreameling says:

        Or maybe you have, but you’re doing that day over again right fucking now.

        Ever think of that, smart guy?

        Awww. He thinks I’m smart!

        *re-enable sarcasm filter*

        [Chucky] Well, I’m no scientist but wouldn’t nanotech be about the only way it could happen? We’re all made up of pretty much the same molecules and atoms, right? So the robots could rebuild the blood (or themselves) according to their needs, in a way biology probably couldn’t[5]. I admit adjusting for actual physiology is a tricky one, but what the heck.

        [Aaron] Also dreameling I don’t think the nanotech, in this specific case, is an issue. I understand where you are coming from, nanotech designed for one biology, generally speaking, is theorized not to work for a different biology. But this wouldn’t always be the case, especially since we really are children when it comes to nanotechnology.

        My thinking was that if you introduce alien nanotech into a human body, the white blood cells and the immune system at large will go crazy. (Unless maybe the nanotech was so small that the white blood cells could not detect it. I got no idea what size something needs to be for a white blood cell to attack it.) Wouldn’t the nanotech have to be specifically adapted with human-DNA-based proteins and whatnot to properly interface with human cells? Why would nanotech running in alien blood have this ability? I mean, nanotech is not magic that can do anything. (Well, of course it can be in fiction, but then we’re back to magic.)

        Basically, whenever I see something alien be immediately and automatically compatible with something human in a movie, my brain goes, “Wait, no. Explain that or I will not buy it.” Again, my intuition, based on what little I know or think I know of science.

      • stchucky says:

        If we go with nanobiotech, as I mentioned, we have the possibility for adaptability blended with technology. Also, some of that weird first death-scene where he was all jittery (I may be remembering that wrong but it did look strange) could have been some element of the alpha’s blood / power adapting itself to the human system using a huge number of micro-iterations.

        Sounds cool to me.

    • dreameling says:

      I don’t give a crap what your intent was! You didn’t say my post was “butterfly flaps its wings in Tokyo crap” and tell me “enough”, so end of God damn story.

      ‘Cos if you had said that, I would have ripped you a new one!

      Incorrect. He said “I don’t care about chaos theory” (paraphrase slightly because too lazy to look up there again). That is *exactly* what the butterfly crap I said is. Chaos theory. So it’s *exactly* what dreamling said, just in different words. Capisce?

      I feel that my original reply was so clever and funny that I better not continue so as not to dispel the magic. So I’m not. (This may already be too much!)

      What’s that? There was no magic because you know I’m not actually that clever? Fuck you, guys!

      PS. I fixed that missing closing parenthesis for you, Aaron.

      • Aaron the Time-Traveling Patriot says:

        Okay then let’s go somewhere else.
        Original text:

        Also dreameling I don’t think the nanotech, in this specific case, is an issue. I understand where you are coming from, nanotech designed for one biology, generally speaking, is theorized not to work for a different biology. But this wouldn’t always be the case, especially since we really are children when it comes to nanotechnology. And in this specific case, the nanobots need only detect the death of the host organism, nothing more…not too complicated to think of ways it could be more universal or at least similar for many species. After that, the nanobots don’t act on the biology of the creature, they act on the world around to trigger a (coordinated amongst all the nanotech, surely) reset of time. So, it isn’t as biology-dependent as all that. IMO. Just to defend an idea I came up with about 5 seconds after reading Hatboy’s objection.

  5. thelinza says:

    It’d have to be the end of the world to bring you back into this thread. Just saying.
    Original text:

    WAIT WHAT IF HE FELL ASLEEP DURING THE REPEAT DAY

    • stchucky says:

      I think that would be okay, wouldn’t it? I mean, presumably he slept at least once or twice in the night between his reset point and the beach battle. He’d’ve been exhausted after all the training and stuff. It wasn’t sleep that reset him, that’s just a state of consciousness. It was death that did it.

      I guess his power might have filtered out of his blood as his cells replaced themselves in much the same way a transfusion did, over the course of a few days. Neither Cage nor Vrataski seemed to deal with that, they always died and reset (as far as we saw) in that day-or-two period. So the power didn’t have a chance to filter out.

      And I would also guess it doesn’t filter out of the alphas themselves at all (obviously). They can go any length of time without resetting, and once they die the reset happens anyway.

      • dreameling says:

        But what if someone else had gotten sprayed by an Alpha during one of Cage’s reset days? Would we end up with embedded / branching / recursive resets? Or would the universe just go “Fuck this” and reboot?

        Come to think of it, no one else really never got Alpha blood on them during all those hundreds or thousands of iterations that Cage went through? I know Alpha’s are really really really really rare, but still. Or maybe someone did, but that simply did not affect Cage’s looping timeline (e.g., maybe they went through all their iterations in a single one of Cage’s).

      • stchucky says:

        Yeah, and there was always an alpha on that beach, right? Reset put it there, unless it left. Not only that, but we know Vrataski killed one and went looper, so … can it only happen with one human at a time, or do we end up with a situation where there can be another one, multiple reset triggers, and Cage would suddenly wake up and find himself in a new iteration without having died?

        Would he then lose the power?

        And what if the alpha died, didn’t they say that if that happened, there would be an alien reset event and Cage would lose the power? Seems to me that as soon as the omega found out there was a human in the system, it should kill an alpha and reset if that’s the case. Or the alphas should have some sort of auto-destruct to reset in the case of infiltration.

        It would have been way too hard to address all these questions, of course.

        What might have been nice, just to add to Linza’s thinking on the hero dynamic, would have been if Cage and Vrataski swapped a couple of times. She could have gotten bled on, died, Cage could be killed, then he would wake up without the power but she would walk up to him and tell him that she now had it again. Or something. Allowing them to kick arse with a new dynamic.

        Or psycho guy on fire from J Squad could have gotten it.

        Or maybe someone did, but that simply did not affect Cage’s looping timeline (e.g., maybe they went through all their iterations in a single one of Cage’s).

        Oooh! Could be.

      • stchucky says:

        And what if the alpha died, didn’t they say that if that happened, there would be an alien reset event and Cage would lose the power? Seems to me that as soon as the omega found out there was a human in the system, it should kill an alpha and reset if that’s the case. Or the alphas should have some sort of auto-destruct to reset in the case of infiltration.

        In fact now I think about it, this was why they had to avoid killing the alpha at the endzone, right? Because if it died, there would be an alien-advantage reset?

        Seems to me the alien should definitely have some sort of kill-switch to help it do this in the event of a human getting the power.

        It’s also extremely lucky that, in all those iterations of the beach battle, either a human didn’t kill the alpha from a distance and reset the day, or kill it up-close (as you say) and knock Cage out of the loop (maybe) and start a loop of his or her own.

        Or maybe someone did, but that simply did not affect Cage’s looping timeline (e.g., maybe they went through all their iterations in a single one of Cage’s).

        See, again, that would be super-cool. But wouldn’t that person sooner or later do the same thing Cage did, and go looking for someone who knew what was going on? But yeah, in general this would detract from the movie, either because Cage would reset, losing the entire character buildup, or he would remember and we’d just have a second Vrataski character. Actually even as I say this I realise that it would be the latter, Cage would probably just lose the power and remember everything, the same way Vrataski does. Right? Maybe? Being de-looped might be akin to being blood-transfused?

        What if grinning guy on fire (actually his name was Kuntz, heh) was a looper? But he was nuts (possibly from having been in the loop for a subjective eternity), so he just went over and over again going into the beach battle, and getting burned?

        What if he thought he was in Hell?

      • dreameling says:

        What might have been nice, just to add to Linza’s thinking on the hero dynamic, would have been if Cage and Vrataski swapped a couple of times. She could have gotten bled on, died, Cage could be killed, then he would wake up without the power but she would walk up to him and tell him that she now had it again. Or something. Allowing them to kick arse with a new dynamic.

        That sounds really cool. But I’m thinking that too would’ve been too complex for a 2-hour film narrative.

      • thelinza says:

        Liver function isn’t something typically depicted in sci-fi.

      • stchucky says:

        I’m seeing this as a missed opportunity.

  6. stchucky says:

    A couple of things really do my head in about the movie at this point:

    1) The beach battle. As I said, I really liked the way they had to re-do it and re-do it, planning every step and every angle of attack, and it got more and more difficult. Ignoring my objection that (I think) it would be impossible (because evidently it wasn’t), we would still end up with a case of the mimics observing a pair of devastatingly powerful and skilled fighters on that beach. Cage and Vrataski wouldn’t just need to dance through the Iteration #1 battle, they would need to dance through the Iteration #n battle that would happen when the mimics saw the trail of destruction and piled their entire force onto Cage and Vrataski’s whereabouts. That would quickly become an unwinnable scenario, wouldn’t it?

    And that might be what we saw happening, with the pursuit in the trailer and the farmhouse and the helicopter and all. Were the mimics (or the alphas and the omega) aware of the time-resets that Cage was making happen? It seems to me that if they were, they would also remember what had happened and be aware of what was happening differently, so they would home in on Cage and Vrataski pretty fast (indeed, if the omega was aware, we could have had a cool scene where they landed on the beach one time and found it deserted, only to have the mimics burst out of fucking nowhere right underneath them).

    So maybe they couldn’t be aware of the resets, they just had this vague awareness that the power had been handed on (as I think was mentioned by Dr. Carter). That’s cool.

    Which brings me to the second interesting point…

    2) It’s not a complete reset, is it? Cage’s injuries heal and everything back-the-way-it-was’s, but he remembers. And obviously when an alpha dies and the omega resets the day, the alien remembers what happened then too. So, memory means some chemical imprint on the brain, some change in the synapses. Furthermore, the training Cage does suggests build-up of muscle memory and reflexes, if not actual muscle mass and strength and stamina. All of these things have to carry over from iteration to iteration, without being wiped in the reset.

    So that’s a Hell of a talent for these aliens / this alien to have, right?

    • stchucky says:

      CINEMASINS DIDN’T PICK UP ON THAT ONE.

      • dreameling says:

        See, this is why it’s easier to just go with “magic”. If you start picking it apart like that, it… comes apart.

      • stchucky says:

        Only if we can’t find explanations for it all!

        But yeah, best to leave it completely unexplained and go with “spooky alien whatevers”. It happened, and it was really cool.

      • dreameling says:

        Of course, it’s always fun to geek out over possible explanations. I’m not saying we shouldn’t do that. Case in point, this thread.

      • stchucky says:

        See, without even going nanobiotech, and just going with what is in the movie – it’s in the blood – there’s a bit of an explanation for the stuff that is carried over.

        That stuff is really, really small-scale. Now obviously whatever it is in the blood that gives the ability is carried back between iterations, that much is obvious and vital. So it’s not much of a stretch to say it could also carry tiny coded bits with it, into the blood of the reset human, and apply all those changes in memory and muscle and other patterns, so he remembers and is able to learn and train.

        In fact, it would be vital to the actual mechanism, wouldn’t it? Otherwise, your protective defence puts the entire universe into an eternal time-loop with no escape.

      • stchucky says:

        Which, while it is a nice “fuck you” to the universe that just killed you, isn’t much of a defence mechanism.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s